>> The meeting of the Pasadena City College Board of Trustees for August the 25th. Ms. Thompson, would you call a roll please? >> Mr. Thomson? >> I am here. >> Ms. Brown? >> I'm here. >> Dr. Fellow? >> Here in body only. [ Laughter ] >> Dr. Mann. >> Present. >> Mr. Baum. >> Here. >> Nolan is not with us this evening apparently. So, we are scheduled to have a closed session beginning right about now. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to address the Board of Trustees with respect to any closed session item? >> Maybe you should just ask if there's anybody in the audience. >> There are people in the audience, you don't see them. >> I'm just kidding. >> Very important people on the audience. If not, we will adjourn or go into our closed session, we'll not adjourn but we will recess into our closed session. We will discuss Government Code Section 54957.6 Labor Negotiations PCCFA, CSEA 777, ISSU and the POA. We will have Government Code Section 54957.6 Negotiations Unrepresented Employee, Management Association, Government Code Section 54956.9 B, Conference with Legal Counsel regarding Anticipated Litigation, Government Code Section 54957.6, Negotiation Unrepresented Employee College President, Government Code Section 54957.6 Negotiation with Unrepresented Employee, Vice President, Government Code Section 54957 Public Employee Appointment. And we will be back at 7:00 o'clock. [ Pause ] >> Okay, the Board has returned and is back in session after our closed session. During the closed session, we did take action on the items Government Code Section 54957.6 and 54957 Public Employee Appointment. We are pleased to announce that by a vote of 5 to 1 with Dr. Mann being the one, no vote. We are appointing Doctor--or Dr. Rocha is appointing Dr. Lisa Sugimoto as the Chief Advancement Officer, Vice President College Advancement, so congratulation Dr. Sugimoto. [ Applause ] >> Dr. Mann has something to say. >> Dr. Mann? >> Yes, I would like to explain the thinking behind my no vote is no reflection at all of qualifications of Dr. Sugimoto for whom I have the greatest respect and admiration and have for many years. It's just that I do not think in a time of a financial crisis when we have students standing in the halls not being able to get into classes is the time to create a new administrative position. And for--that is a reason for my vote, I don't think we need four Vice Presidents. >> Mr. Baum? >> And I just wanted to say--it's in my appreciation for Dr. Rocha's leadership in establishing this position. I have long felt that the college needs to be more assertive in its advancement effort and focus in its advancement effort. And I think it will be a real opportunity in the next several years for the college not only to focus on the philanthropic efforts within our community. But also to create an integrated structure where we are pushing the college forward in resource development from all sources including private fund raising, public fund raising, alumni relations, public relations, community relations, government relations and I think this is a major step forward for the district. And my--what I told them is that within a period of years, I'm really looking forward to seeing the college having a full throttled advancement operation. And USC is gonna try to raise five billion dollars in the next six or seven years and I think Pasadena City College will be able to have similar opportunities for fund raising. >> Is that before or after they get their football program? >> Yeah. [ Laughter ] >> Mr. Martin? >> Yeah, I'd like to comment that just to restate its funded, disposition is funded 50/50 with the foundation. So from a district perspective, we have an opportunity, we hope to hire a phenomenal person at a bargain basement price. And in response to that, we're looking forward to her efforts being able to more than cover the cost of her salary in what it can do for the long term advancement and betterment of our students both in the terms of buildings and scholarships and in many, many other ways. So to me this was a phenomenal deal to get--sorry to put it in those terms but to get this quality and this level of a person at such a phenomenal bargain, thanks to the foundation. So, normally I'd be sensitive to four Vice Presidents, but this one is just-- >> It's okay. >> --too good of the opportunity for us to pass. >> Any other comments on this? >> I would just add that the foundation is very, very excited about this and looking forward to working with Dr. Sugimoto. And to getting about the business of raising significant amounts of money on behalf of the college so we're very pleased to be in that position. >> So we need to pause and have the Pledge of Allegiance. And I wonder if I could ask Mr. Martinez to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. [ Noise ] >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all. [ Noise ] >> Next item, our agenda is the approval of minutes of our regular meeting of August the 4th, 2010. Are there any corrections or additions to the minutes? >> Yes. >> Dr. Mann? >> In the--on page 3, Appointment Process for Trustee-Area 5 Discussion with Possible Action. I would like to make a couple of additions here. I do think that we did take some action. So I think it should show and I guess we'll have to go back to the tape to find out who moved and passed in the vote. But it should show that we did set the deadline for the closing as August 27th. And I think it also shows that we agreed to have an Ad Hoc Committee, do the screening of the applicants and identify the finalists. And that this Ad Hoc Committee would be composed of Ms. Brown, Mr. Thompson and me. And that we agreed that we would post the agenda and that all Board members were welcome to attend. And so, I don't have that all written out because I think you'll have to go back and listen to the tape. But I think those are two actions and they should be included in the minutes as such. And-- >> I think it might be helpful also if we attach to the minutes, the Board member vacancy selection procedure that has been prepared and which Ms. Thompson has handed a copy to each of us this evening. So perhaps if they just could attach that as an exhibit to the minutes as well. >> Okay, and I have another correction. >> Okay. >> On page 4 item 2, it says, Dr. Jacobs and Dr. Sabob [phonetic] presented the fall enrollment report, I think we need at least one more sentence of a detail about what the fall enrollment is. And particularly what they're doing to make--identify more seats and make open spaces for more students. So I can't put all that but maybe Dr. Jacobs or Dr. Sabob could--I would like for the public to know what the situation is and what we're doing 'cause I thought it was a very excellent report. >> Okay, any other comments or corrections, additions? Is there a motion to approve the minutes as amended? >> I move that the minutes be approved. >> So is there a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor please say "aye." >> Aye. >> All opposed? Okay, minutes are approved as amended. And we're now--I've got to skip over introductions and announcements if I may just because we do have a request from members of the public to speak on non-agenda items to this item 2D. Request from Roberto Martinez, Susie Ling and Johari DeWitt Rogers. So if we could welcome the three of you to come forward please. [ Noise ] >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Welcome. >> We're here representing the three President's Advisory Committees. And in our joint advisory committee in May, we collectively took a vote to support a letter that Roberta is going to read some excerpt from tonight. And so we're standing here tonight in solidarity with an issue that was brought forth first by the President's Latino Advisory Committee and the three advisory committees are standing in solidarity. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> The Pasadena City College President's African-American, Asian-American and Latino Advisory Committee's stand united against Arizona House Bill 2281 which forbids school districts from offering ethnic studies classes. This law undermines the state's obligation to protect an individual's right to learn about and meaningfully engage with his or her own linguistic or cultural heritage in conjunction with others. Ethnic studies contributes to a more inclusive, social vision for American society. Efforts to mischaracterize and demonize ethnic studies constitute and assault on American societies most deeply held principles. Equal rights, educational opportunity, free speech and academic freedom. If we deny these rights to some, we deny them to all. >> I wanted to remind everyone that PCC is very, very proud of being one of the most continuously offering ethnic studies since 1971 in many of the disciplines, except math. [ Laughter ] >> But even in PE and in other disciplines too and we just established or few years ago the GEMS major, the Gender, Ethnic and Multicultural Studies major. And so we stand behind this very proud tradition that PCC has endured, thank you. >> Thank you. Any questions or comments? Okay. I have a request from Patty D'Orange-Martin, is this respect to an item that's on the agenda or a non-agenda? >> Non-agenda. >> Okay, thank you. [ Noise ] >> Good evening, I wanted to officially announce that Pasadena City College has been selected as a veteran friendly school by the GI Jobs Magazine a--for 2011. And this puts us at the top 15 percent of all colleges and universities and trade schools nationwide. [ Inaudible Remark ] >> Thank you very much. [ Applause ] >> Anyone else to address the Board on non-agenda items? Then let's go back we made then please to introductions and announcements, Dr. Rocha? >> Yes, thank you President Thompson. I have a lot of good things happening, I have a few very quick announcements before I introduce Patrick McCallum. I did want to thank my colleagues Susie, Roberta and Johari for bringing forward that statement which is in complete accord with social justice history of this great college. And so I look forward to working with the advisory groups to continue our history of social justice. I do want to congratulate all of the staff for the great work they did to merit the honor of being a veteran serving institution. I see you took the plaque back but I wanna make sure that we get it. [ Laughter ] >> And we will put it in a prominent place. But this is a symbol of our deep commitment to the veterans who have served our country and served this community. A couple of quick ones, I wanted to thank Vice President Jacobs who was kind enough to go over and officiate at our pinning ceremony of the vocational nursing program tonight, we pinned and licensed--let's see, how many Jackie? >> Twenty-four. Twenty-four. >> 24 new nurses are out there doing good work under the PCC alumni banner. So thank you. [ Applause ] >> And I have two more quick ones, one from Juan Gutierrez who's from--who of course is our Director of PR, Juan, if you could just briefly shout out your news at the podium and then Elaine, I'll ask her to give us her good news. >> Thank you Dr. Rocha and Board of Trustees. I just wanted to announce that Pasadena City College is on the executive Board of the National Council for Marketing and Public Relations. This year we're the chair of the awards and this is District 6. For those of you unaware with this organization, it promotes two year colleges through communications and marketing. And it actually covers California, Arizona, Utah, Hawaii and Guam. And I'm really waiting for the annual conference in Guam so we can go there. [ Laughter ] >> But basically as a ward chair, we got 245 entries from over 100 colleges. And we had judges from a lot of prominent organizations in the south land including the Dodger's, Sony, Sketchers, universities like UCLA, Occidental University of Redlands. And obviously the Pasadena Star News and the LA Times. >> But what I really wanted to announce is for the first time in the organization's history, students got to judge. And it's very important that we--that I say this because most of the things that PR, colleges, anyone does is for students. And I want to thank Nolan Pack and [inaudible] Pack and all the AS students that came out to help us judge these 245 entries. Because it really puts things in perspective as PIOs, as VPs, as Presidents, as even Board members, we think we know what motivates and how to reach students. But really the students are the only ones that know, so thank you. >> Thank you, Juan. [ Applause ] >> And last but not least, Elaine has great news on one of our alums. Would you mind-- >> Thank you. >> Ah, you're over there. >> I'm over here, >> Sorry. >> Thank you Dr. Rocha. I'm pleased to mention to announce that we've been notified by Scott Lays' office, President of the Community College League of California. The PCC alum, David Rust, will receive the California Community College distinguished alumni award for 2010. He is one of five being honored this year, the award will be presented at the League's annual convention this November in Pasadena at the convention center. It is given to men and women whose attendance at a California Community College has helped them to achieve their goals and their dreams and to make a difference in their community. Mr. Rust is an award winning photo journalist. He's covered such far reaching events as the 1991 Gulf War, the Croatian War for Independence, the Haiti earthquake and most recently the Deep Water Horizon oil rig disaster. He is one of ten distinguished alums at PCC to have achieved this honor and he joins the ranks of individuals such as Jackie Robinson, Jaime Escalante and Octavia Butler so we are delighted, thrilled and proud. >> Okay congratulations David. [ Applause ] >> Okay and with that I would like to introduce Patrick McCallum from the McCallum Group and I call Patrick forward for his report. Patrick was kind enough to come at his own expense to give us some information about the McCallum Group itself but also to give us an inside report on what's happening in Sacramento with respect to the budget and with respect to significant legislation including AB 1440 on which we have a resolution tonight. So Patrick we thank you, we welcome you and we turn it over to you. >> Dr. Rocha you never told me it was at my own expense, this is how we-- [ Laughter ] >> So I just think that if your distinguished alum can cover Croatia, can cover the latest Gulf War--the Gulf War, what's going on in the Gulf then it's exactly the kind of person that can cover what we're doing in Sacramento because there's a fine line between the kind of wars that are going on around and really what we're facing here in California and what I see in the Capitol steps all the time. So what Dr. Rocha wanted me to do was talk a little bit about our firm, there's two firms, given the budget that's what you really want to hear about, I will give you my assessment. But after 30 years of doing this I feel less confident right now in giving you a determined date and an amount though I can sort of work through what I think, if I had to guess what happened I'd like to say, we can cover--there's probably 200 bills, we'll cover some of the main bills then give you a quick perspective of what I think some of the issues are in 2011. The questions are always the better part of this. So, inner? So we--I have two--we have two companies, kind of a full service operation for community colleges, the College Brain Trust is a company of 47 consultants, mostly retired college presidents, vice presidents, faculty, IT and we're doing a little bit of everything for California's community colleges, from educational master planning to information technology, managing government's work, we've done a lot of IT work and facility work. So there is a typical approach, McCallum Group Inc. is--a little bit of my background. I started in 1979 for a legislator who was the chair of the higher Ed. committee and became the consultant to the semi-higher education committee. At the time I worked for him we carried the post Prop 13 bail-out bill and I carried community college bills. My career has been around community colleges, my father is a retired faculty member from community college, he was President of Statewide Academic Senate, his brother was Vice President of [inaudible]. So there's been a lot of community college in our background. I spent 17 years as Executive Director of the Faculty Association of which I probably been on this campus many times making legislative reports. I went out on my own about eleven years ago and done work with the lobbying side for about 15, 20 districts, we created the Brain Trust about three years ago. The way we work is very factually-based, very data-driven whether it's with McCallum Group or the College Brain Trust, so data has to drive it, where are we going to be in five years, what does that mean for either an educational plan or a legislative plan. There's a research and review that's contextualized so what do people and individuals at a college campus believe that's going on with the data, it--every college has its different culture and data so where do we--how do we collaborate, put recommendations together and then how do you make it work given your college? So that's sort of the process that we do at McCallum Group. And it's pretty consistent with McCallum Group and the College Brain Trust in how we approach. So let's move to the budget, this is sort of the numbers that you all know, you've seen it that essentially we're pretty close between the Governor and what the conference committee has gotten--has put before us. The difference really is in some categorical back fills and this view over negative COLA. So the categorical funds at the conference committee one is the 35 million which would back fill the IRA Funds which we got this year and the other is a 25 million dollar augmentation to our CTE Fund, that's coming from the speaker who's made that his priority. The Governor had proposed what we call a negative COLA this year both for K-12 and community colleges, the conference committee, this is the Democratic Conference Committee would back fill that with the 22 million. There is no increase fee, fee increase by either side. So of course, the debate goes much bigger than this and we could go on for an hour to have a discussion about really what's going on in Sacramento but the bottom line is to get towards the Governor's budget, we need in a minimum two and a half to three billion dollars above the Governor's budget and that's where this four-billion dollar debate, the Democrats have proposed revenues and the Republicans have proposed cuts. And the way it works is that--as you know the Governor's proposed eliminating child care, eliminating CalWORKs and much deeper cuts actually to K-12 than we're receiving and it's clear that the Democrats will not vote for a budget unless CalWORKs, child care and some of the augmentations are restored and that's in that two and a half to three billion dollar range. So there we lie between two different visions of California, between the politics that are going on this thing that we get caught into and other side issues that are going on, the system that really is made to be dysfunctional here in California and trying to position community colleges within this. Positioning comes through a variety of ways, first of all we get caught in the Prop 98 discussion with K-12 and the politics of suspending a voting on K-12 and dealing with children. We have basically battled this thing and I've made my career on this, I negotiated the Prop 98 split, when I was at fact which was the common, what we call 11 percent share of Proposition 98 and for years we made that, give us our fair share. We are now closer to 12 percent of Prop 98 but when I negotiated that deal and you took students full time and called on student between community colleges and K-12 in the late '80s we were 11 percent, we're now closer to 15 percent, so that means over the years we have dropped in our per student spending per Prop 98 as money--inadequate money has gone to K-12. So we're no longer in a split battle and we have to get into a policy battle and the simple policy is we're growing very rapidly, K-12 is not, they need the money but at some point you have to deal with this rapid growth going into higher education and that's been a simple mantra that we've had for a number of years. The numbers are there, the legislators know it, the staff knows it, the Governor's office knows it, the press has picked up, your students that are here, each faculty member here, we know how many students we've turned away and that is this kind of debate that gets or what kind of state we're going to have and are we going to have an educated state. >> And certainly from a Republican view which is community driven, inexpensive, quality driven we need to put our money into community colleges and they're saying that and certainly from a Democratic view, opportunities for new California is to get educated and all of the rest is quite frankly a bipartisan policy position on community colleges. What it's not, and these other three programs are child care, CalWORKs and K-12 is we are not a political powerful big player in the state of California. The political powerful players have huge PACs which we have none of that. So now you get into--all right, so you get to, do they raise 3 billion dollars? I could tell you how they get to 3 billion dollars and I could tell you right now what I think will happen I think they'll take what this corporate tax cut that got adopted last year. They will not put the tax cut next year and they'll extend it two or three years, that's 2 billions dollars a year. They'll be some majority vote kind of fee revenues, you know, getting closer to 2.5, 3 billion and now you've got a billion dollars worth of cuts. That's an exchange for the Democrats and I guess us getting that, they'll be some reforms on government expenditures, future budget expenditures and pension continues to be on the table in pension reforms, not easy issues for the Democrats within it and somewhere around there will be a deal. And the deal will be--could be this week, could be tomorrow night, my guess is probably we're looking at October. If you were to ask me last week and when I wrote this thing Monday morning I would say it's probably going to be post-November election what I was hearing last week. Yesterday I had more positive feedback, I talked to the Senate budget chair, Duchaney who as you all know has been an avid, was a trustee in San Diego district, an avid supporter of the community colleges, she says community colleges are not gonna get cut. I had dinner last night for a while speaker Perez, he says community colleges are not going to get cut, Senator Dutton is going to be a new Senate Republican chair, he says community colleges are off the table. So yesterday, I said other areas are going to get cut but it's not going to be community colleges, it looked pretty good. We could be looking at the Governor's budget maybe negative COLA, maybe some of the categorical funds restored but you still need to get tough votes for Democrats and tough votes for Republicans within this and that's where each of us in this room are going to have to play a role. It's not about--really, we've done what we can do in Sacramento, we've kind of gone through all the stuff, we've given the policy arguments. I did it yesterday. You don't overdo it, made the rounds. The real discussion now is what's happening in legislator's districts when they finish tomorrow or Friday night, the session ends and they don't have a budget and they come back here and we start not getting checks and some student don't get their CalWORKs and, you know, how long we could hold out and what that means. But its quiet discussions with Republican members and Democratic members, what it means in your district and what can we do on their side to give them some courage to make some votes on this thing and right now they're--everything in Sacramento has been operating by fear. So then you have these other outside environmental, you know, the women campaign said to me the other day that if the budget holds out that helps Whitman, so Republicans believe that a hold out of the budget helps their Governor's candidate. I don't know if that's accurate or not but so that's going on. The Democrats, well, if we hold out in November we'll have maybe the passage of this majority vote initiative, they have the elimination of the tax cut which is 2 billion dollars on the initiative and maybe Jerry Brown as Governor and we can negotiate a better--so maybe and maybe--and maybe it's about time 'cause we've always done this since Prop 13 that we really let the public feel, these are conversations you hear of them--feel what it means to have substantial cuts. I mean not--this year we had an 8 percent cut, huge cuts to each of us in this room and everybody else and students but we're talking substantial cuts, 20 percent cuts to gov--and really see whether the public then goes back and changes these rules that made it so difficult. So you have all this political, we have legislators worried about their elections, governor's candidates within it, within it you have people really questioning whether we have created something in California that is so difficult, we can't change it. And there're legitimate issues on both sides. We're a high tax state in some areas. There are other taxes that are not high tax. How do we really think about our taxation system, how do we create where we have less regulations, California community colleges are the most highly regulated community college system in the country as you all know very well. So we're a very regulated state and that's an issue that the Republicans have put on. Can we have legitimate discussions in this thing? You know, I don't know. They'll probably do what we call a get out of town budget that will delay the tax cut for two or three years, do minimal. I think we'll get close to the Governor's budget. So, you know, if I had to guess I think we'll be in that range and we'll be right back at this next year, if I had to guess right now on the budget. Now there's some subtle issues within this, you have some staff that rather fund categorical programs than growth, members generally would prefer to fund growth so whether some of the growth money, 122 million in growth money goes to back fill categorical, kind of happened to us last year. Speaker put this 25 million in CTE funding, high priority but are you going to do that instead of giving you the flexibility to determine growth? No we don't think that but it's politically popular with Republicans and the speaker so that is kind of interplaying within that. And then you still have all these language around accountability which we've taken out of the budget stuff. You know and your Senator here has been the lead on that stuff, been taken out but still kind of floating on the table. So those are kind of the more technical things that I work on and we're working on, a little bit of play what I think the budget might look like and of course I would be glad to answer more specific questions on the budget. Let me quickly go through the bills that Dr. Rocha asked to talk about. All these bills and budget, if there's one word that--we used to say fear was the word--what controls California politics, I'd say lack of trust, people don't trust us. They don't trust government, no one trusts each other, Democrats don't--just Republicans don't trust Democrats, they don't trust our CEOs we're dealing with bills on that, they don't trust whether the academic Senate will put in the transferred agree bill. Senator Liu is not sure whether we're really going to put student success so she had ideas on--as you know when the bill started. I've been in many discussions as you've been with her. She has sort of a radical difference. So we've been working on a best value procurement bill that would allow you in your bids rather than just low bid to say, if this counter lasts us 25 years and we pay a little bit more money for it then the low bid of something that's five years, we ought to have best value. Well, no one trusted on this so it's taken me three years to kind of get this best value bill through. The assessment pilot project bill, you have both sides on this. Some people don't trust that we can do a single assessment, think we'll have lots of problems, lots of cuts, maybe inadequate for and others feel it's the only way 'cause they don't trust the other test. So trust is sort of what I get everyday. There isn't a day in the capitol where I have somebody say something to me and if you guys were to hear this you would just cringe, say something about community colleges. Despite all that when you take us and you take everybody else in government and you say, "Who's doing the best job?" Pretty much we get ranked the highest rating of all the kind of public sectors, certainly everybody believes in police and fire and all the rest within it but when we look at that despite all the criticism we hear in the trust we still come out and that's why I think we're looking at coming out on this budget thing with around the Governor's budget. >> Yeah, Patrick I was just gonna ask you to finish up because we have some stuff. But if you could, you know, in reviewing that since we have a resolution on the mandated waiver on AB 1440 that we have a resolution on the agenda today to support the request for the waiver of costs connected to the Padilla Bill if you could just kind of give a sense of when that bill is actually going to happen and what the actual waiver mandate means. >> It's just passed the Senate floor this afternoon, so it's down to the Governor's desk. >> Okay. >> 1440 is? >> 1440, there were people in the Governor's office the Department of Finance that didn't trust us that we would implement quickly and fast, we got to implement this transfer degree, I assume you know--right away. So they basically did something quite radical, never been done before said, "If you don't implement a transfer degree we're going to hold back your apportionment". >> This is something that I've been trying to do with cities and counties and not successful. We weren't too happy with that language but the language got--was negotiated, I wasn't in the room and so we came up with a secondary idea that said if we can get--because they were also worried about whether district are going to apply mandated costs, if we could get 72 districts to--each district to say we won't apply for a mandated cost on this thing, we'll exempt ourselves from it will you take this language out? And so that's what we had to do, the language is still there but the language says, if we get 72 community college districts then the language tying it to apportionment comes out. And that's a huge problem tying to apportionment. So this year it's transfer, next year you have a Governor that says, "I want all your classes to be CTE and if you don't do it I'm tying it to apportionment." Or you know my friends in the faculty say, "We want 85 percent full time faculty ratios and if it's not done you don't get your apportionment." So it's a bad precedent, but at the same time this is the Governor that's been very supportive to us in the community colleges and so this is the language and, you know, this kind of bypasses and exempts the language. So we're urging every district and I think we've got pretty much every district now to support it. >> Thank you Patrick. Are there any questions before we break end of presentation? No? >> Any questions or comments? Good, thank you very, very much for-- >> Thanks so much Patrick. >> For a very good presentation. >> And then finally just on the screen in about 30 seconds we just wanted to put up for you the fall 2010 enrollment update of--so that you could see with facts and figures where we are for our fall enrollment and of course we start classes on Monday, so. [ Pause ] >> 45 seconds. [ Laughter ] [ Inaudible Remarks ] >> There you go. >> As he said very fast I just want to point out the colored lines in the middle, last time we were here we talked about adding seats, what we did is we added the extra seats and then we tracked how we were doing in filling them, you could also see that we've also added sections, we're up to an additional 26 sections. Down at the bottom just pay attention to the number that says percent of seats filled, it says 98.7 percent of our seats were filled at 2:45 today but that's based on limit and wait list. And now I'm gonna show you a nice little extra chart just for fun if I can. This one right here is 2:45 today. If you take out the wait list, which is the actual number of seats available in this section, we are actual 105.7 percent filled. So we're filled. [ Laughter ] >> So we can--and you know, you'll get a paper copy but I think the essential piece of the report at the bottom line is that our efficiency, thanks to the faculty leadership of Jackie Saba [phonetic] that the sections are about the same, the overall efficiency has gone up a great deal and so therefore we have been able to serve many more students without increasing the budget. So I'm grateful and that's my report, thank you President Thomson. >> Are there any questions of Dr. Rocha? >> Okay let me go back if I may to item 2C, introductions, announcements, anybody have introductions or announcements to make? Okay moving past that, reports from Board of Trustees members, Mr. Baum? >> I just--two things I wanted to call people's attention to, I was pleased to attend a reception hosted by Senator Liu in honor of Dr. Rocha on Sunday afternoon and it was a tremendous community turnout and you could see the affection that the community has for PCC in the attendance, members of the city council, members of the School Board, it was in the northwest part of Pasadena and Dr. Mann and Mrs. Brown we're there and Dr. Rocha hit a home run with his remarks. He really--you could see the admiration from the community for his leadership even in the short time that he was with us. And that was also evidenced in case any body hadn't seen a recent column written by Larry Wilson in the Pasadena Star News praising the leadership envision of Dr. Rocha and I was pleased to see both of those events and maybe proud to--of the work he's doing and the work that the college is doing. >> Mr. Martin? >> None thank you. >> Dr. Mann. >> Nothing. >> Ms. Brown? >> No report. >> Dr. Fellow. >> I just wanted to thank the Board for approving my appointee to the oversight committee, Dr. Brad King of Arcadia who was a psychologist at USC, thank you. >> Mr. Pack? >> Yes, I did attend the California Community College League or the Community College League of California rather workshop for student trustees the weekend of August 13 through 14. So I'd like to thank the Board and Dr. Rocha for sending me to that because it was a wonderful learning experience and an excellent networking opportunity to speak with other student leaders from other community colleges across the state. It was also very inspiring because many people are looking to accomplish great things this year. We talked a little bit about defining student success, I guess, Scott Lay gave a presentation to us and so I look forward to our presentation later this meeting on the accreditation on EMP so we can talk more about that. And also I had the privilege of sitting in with Dr. van Pelt at a Foothill Transit negotiations for the I-PASS which went really well, we knocked a lot of money off of the total so that we're getting a decent bargain and the I-PASS is set to go for this fall and we're hoping that we can integrate it with registration for the spring. >> Anything else? >> That's all. >> Okay thank you. Shared governess representatives, Dr. Douglas? >> Nothing to report tonight, thank you. >> Mr. Martinez? >> Just two items the Academic Senate is making every effort to stay on top of Senate Bill 1440 to be aware of the final language, we've received a letter from the Chancellor's Office saying that let's wait for the final language, as you may know that legislation will mandate that we align basically our AA degrees with transfer requirements to the Cal State system. So there may be changes, we just don't know where that will be going quite yet. And again, so we're waiting for the final language in the legislation and for guidelines from the Chancellor's Office. The second item is that I'm very glad to announce that the Senate's Distance Education Committee has produced a new web link, special thanks should go out to Sandy Haynes who's in the audience and it could be found at pasadena.edu/distance. It's a link that includes a multimedia welcome message, a listing of all of our distance education courses and resources for students, staff and faculty and I would encourage you to take a look. Thank you. >> And I want to congratulate Sandy and all the members of the DE Committee and we should give them a big round of applause. [ Applause ] >> If you get a chance go to the website it's great. >> Ms. Smith? >> Right now the Classified Senate's focus is on a self-evaluation of the Senate's performance and levels of success in achieving our goals. Our next meeting is scheduled for September 1st at which time those responses will be reviewed and methodologies for performance will--for improvement will be discussed. >> Ms. Jackson? >> The Associated Students attended their summer AS retreat and we're very excited about that because we set all of our--the majority of our goals for the year and so we've got a lot of great things planned. We're ramping up for our first few weeks of school, it's already going to be Monday, the first day of the fall but we are setting up for our Week of Welcome, it's been renamed so as to not be confused with Welcome Day. And at the Week of Welcome we are very happy to vote students service representation but also healthier food options, we're going to be having a fajita bar and we're also--we bought the rights to Toy Story 3, that's the one that's in the theaters right now. So we'll be showing that in the quad I believe. So we'll be doing that as well for the Week of Welcome. And we also just received a loan for the Flea Market Board of Directors for a laptop rental program. So we'll be purchasing 12 laptops to rent out for the beginning of the fall and we'll be--that rental program will be operating through the Office of Student Affairs, thank you. >> I just sat corrected as to I misintroduced you, Ms. Hammond I'm sorry, my apologies. Okay. Then let's move on to approval of consent items if we can. Is there any consent item anyone wishes to take separately, Dr. Mann? >> 27-P--oh no I mean to discuss not vote on it separately. >> 27-P? >> 27-P, uh-huh. >> Okay, any others, Dr--Mr. Baum? >> 24-B, 25-B, 26-B and 32-B. >> Any others? Okay, Dr. Mann let's take yours first please. >> Okay well on 27-P, I didn't know we're gonna go backwards, excuse me, it will just take a second. I just wanted to point out the retirement of Professor Rich McKee who has, after 33 years as a Professor of Natural Sciences and we all know how committed Dr. McKee was to his students, he's been--come to many, many board meetings and we all know how committed he is to transparency and open government and we wish him his best in his retirement. >> Okay. Mr. Baum? >> First, I just want to add something on Mr. McKee and I corresponded a little bit with them after he announced his retirement and he pledges that he will have even more time for activism [laughter] now that he's retiring and I said, "Right on brother." So a couple--the two Grant Applications, I just want to say and I think I see MaryAnn Laun back there too, I'm just so pleased to see the district working with the community to engage in this process and it's a unique role that our college can play in bringing--marshaling the resources together in an important community-based endeavor and I was really excited to see that and I hope that grant comes through for us. And then [inaudible] Martin again the--we got now--last spring we were awarded a center--my question is does this--is this an additional funding for that support too? >> Yes, this is new. >> Okay. And so I'm just hopeful and I really am pleased to see our following through on this commitment to serving our veterans. It's wonderful for the district to be doing that. Okay then 26-B, the contracts, there were just two that jumped out at me, first off the Kleifelder 6--remind me of that again, that's the--that's part of Measure P and how come it's coming through here as opposed through the Measure P contract? >> The answer is that this is a consultant much like an architect only this is the testing labs so all the concrete, all the steel, all the wells, all of it has to be tested and certified for the Division of the State Architect so it comes through as a consultant to the district paid for out of Measure P. >> And is it bid out or--? >> It's not bid because it's a consulting, we go through rather extensive process however to determine the best value for dollar and this is. >> And the last one I saw Daniel Martinez is gonna be the Artist-in-Residence and I wanted to see if anybody knew anything about him. But I was excited to see that we've already lined up our Artist-in-Residence for the spring. And I'm sure we'll find out more about him later. >> That was good. >> My last one was on the purchasing transactions and I just wanted to state for the record too. >> Give us the number there. >> 32-B, I appreciate the Business Office that they put little asterisks by each of the vendors within the district and so for the record as an individual trustee I always think as much as possible, as long as the costs are competitive that we continue to try to patronize businesses within the district boundaries and that I want to continue to encourage the administration to pursue that without making that an overt policy decision but to encourage the district to seek--to patronize the vendors that are within the district borders. >> Anything else under the consent items? >> Motion to approve the consent. >> Is there a second. >> I'll second the motion. >> It had been moved and seconded, we approve the consent items, is there any further discussion, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Oh, not the advisory vote. [ Laughter ] >> All in favor please say aye. >> Aye. >> Aye. >> All opposed? >> Okay motion carries. Back to the agenda here, we are now to item G Receipt of Fourth Quarterly Financial Status Report: Discussion with Possible Action. >> I move approval. >> Second. >> Okay is there any discussion or presentation by Dr. van Pelt, any comments? >> Well, there is just one thing I would like to point out is in terms of the ending balance, the ending balance is 19.7 million dollars which is 1.2 million dollars higher than it was last year. Three quarters of that however was as the result of an audit finding that we had last year which revolved around the faculty load banked hours. We used to carry that on the books as a liability and we were told that it could no longer be carried that way and that we would have to undo that liability which accounts for 900 thousand dollars of that amount. What we now have to do is to budget and we're estimating probably 150 thousand dollars a year in order to cover the use of the load hours. So it's an adjustment that was required by the auditors and that does account for three quarters of the increase to the ending balance but you have to mitigate that against the increased costs operationally. >> When you say three quarters, do you mean three quarters of the 19 million? >> Three quarters, sorry, of the 1.2 million dollar increase, so 900 thousand dollars, 900 thousand dollars out of the 1.2 million. >> Mr. Baum? >> I just want to add a word of appreciation to the administration for managing the colleges' resources so effectively so that we have such a healthy balance because as I understand the state is again deferring our apportionment and as we just heard from Mr. McCallum, he projects that we might even not have a budget 'till November and it's because we have these resources that the district won't be adversely impacted and the employees of the district won't be adversely impacted as a result of it. >> Okay, we have a motion made and seconded is there any further discussion or questions, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor say Aye? >> Aye. >> All opposed? The motion carries. Okay, we're on to Accreditation and Educational Master Plan Update, Dr. Rocha? >> Yes, thank you President Thomson, I'll turn to Dean Miller to give a brief update. >> Thank you Dr. Rocha. As you can see from the accreditation update that's in your packet, there's been a lot of activity over the last two months and the college continues to very aggressively pursue its accreditation responsibilities. This time we added to this agenda item an Educational Master Plan update as well and you'll see that integrated within this accreditation update are items that relate to our Educational Master Planning Process. I just might highlight a couple of quick things along those lines since Dr. Rocha's arrival approximately two months ago there has been a significant effort to increase the participation within both the Accreditation and Educational Master Planning Process. And this has been manifested in what we called an extraordinary meeting of the Educational Master Plan and Accreditation Steering Committees on July 20th which was very well attended where Dr. Rocha, Dean Kollross and myself made presentations and at that meeting we had a significant number of new faces participate. As a result of that, we decided that it would be important to pull together a faculty-based task team. Dr. Rocha requested that we pull this group together with representation of at least one full time and one adjunct faculty member from each of our divisions, add that to our Accreditation Response Steering Committee as well as our Educational Master Plan Steering Committee and bring those groups together at least twice. We had our first meeting on August 19, we had 49 people in attendance there and again it was a lot of new faces. At that meeting we did several things but the core was we provided an update on where we are with our accreditation process using a new score card methodology that set forth what our specific goals were as of March 15th--well basically a score card methodology in terms of where we're going to be on October 15th with this task being completed. We also provided a very, very in-depth report of where we are with the Educational Master Plan Process and discussed what will occur on September 10th, which is a Performance Measurement Workshop that will be facilitated by MIG where we will actually look at the goals that we are setting forth in the Education Master Plan and develop some very specific measurement--performance measurement frameworks to basically guide and make certain that in fact we can achieve those goals. >> In addition to that, Dr. Rocha and I have spent considerable time with MIG discussing the plan and its development and where we go as we bring it to a very successful conclusion. We have modified to some degree the scope of work for MIG as it relates to the efficient expenditure of the balance of the agreement that we have with MIG to get what is needed for the district as we go forward. And along those lines will also be a plan that talks about how we can annually update the plan, update the Educational Master Plan in a manner that informs both our facilities and our technology planning process but to do that by staff as opposed to bringing a consultant in to help us with that. So I will just conclude by saying that we are very much on track for the completion of our followup report by October 15th. I will add my great appreciation to the college faculty and staff and others who have been incredibly engaged in this process. Dr. Rocha's leadership has been very, very significant as he has rallied the campus around both the completion of the accreditation getting us off warning requirement as well as the completion of our Educational Master Plan and to make that plan the guiding light as we go forward. So I think I'll wrap it up at that, Dr. Rocha is there anything else you feel we need to add to this, I'd be happy to-- >> No, it's a very good report. >> Just one question that comes to mind immediately in terms of your discussions with MIG are we paying them additional money or is this part of the original contract? >> This is part of the original contract at the moment and this is where we anticipate that it will stop, if there is a need to go further with that then Dr. Rocha and I will make a recommendation accordingly. >> Okay, good thank you, other questions or comments? >> Actually I do have a comment. I really would like to commend the staff for this report. It shows they have put in a lot of time and I understand that it's been a long process but I think after this is all over we are going to be in a better position. The school will have processes in place that we will be ready for anything else that come forth. I want to commend in particular Dean Miller and Dean Crystal Kollross. I hope I don't mispronounce her name. And I've been--it's been since I came on board they've been working on this. So I have been in accreditation process before where it's a continuous job and you never know how things are going to work out. So, I just want to encourage you to--there is light at the end of the tunnel you're almost there so keep up the good work! >> Thank you. >> I just want to mention too from Ms. Brown's comments is that your--the recommendations one and two every university I know is being hit with assessment, I think it's the most difficult thing in faculty including myself, we give a grade and we believe that's assessment. But it is the most difficult thing today and they're really focusing on that. So we've all been dinged by it, I just went through accreditation and I got the warning too. >> Okay, thank you. Mr. Baum? >> I just had a question too, with respect to the accreditation recommendation number 5 and I wanted to just clarify from the Board it says the team recommends the college develop and implement formal processes for the regular evaluation of each component of its governance and decision making structures. We as a Board have actually reviewed our own assessment policies in the past and is there any additional action that the Board as a component of this needs to consider or act upon? >> As the Board is aware, the Board has a specific bylaw that speaks to your assessment process and you do that on an annual basis. In addition to that, last year I believe it was April or May the Board engaged in a further assessment of their activities by issuing a survey document of selected members of the campus community. You did collect the data that information was done and the Board can choose to go further. In relation to this specific recommendation, the Board is in compliance with that and as we report out October 15th we will--we will report that. >> Okay, so no additional action is needed by the Board to demonstrate compliance with that? >> Not, not--no, I think we're fine right now. >> Are there other questions, Ms. Kollross? You've been awfully quiet. >> I am quiet. [ Laughter ] >> Crystal has had a great deal to do with not only the report today but everything that we're doing as, you know, Ed. as we've mentioned this before so it's a team effort and all the credit belongs to the staff. >> Yes, she and Bob have worked very, very hard on it and done a great job and so they deserve all the credit for both trying to dish their way. So anything else dealing with this, any more questions, there's no action we need to take is there? >> No President Thomson, just a report. >> I do have one question, we had in the Board packet here a revised or amended letter that we got from the committee that--which I'm not putting my hands on at the moment--the committee that-- >> Oh, is that it? >> Yes, that's it, no wonder I couldn't find it. What's the--it says corrected letter dated June 30th, 2010 which we received August 16th, 2010. It was a clerical-- [ Simultaneous Talking ] >> I don't have that. >> Okay well it-- >> I can explain that briefly-- >> It came to me I guess as the Board President. >> It was a clerical error made by the commission staff in terms of how they wrote the original letter, we brought that to their attention and they just corrected it. >> Oh, okay. >> In sum and substance it's the same letter? >> Exactly. >> Alright. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay then let's move on to item I resolution AB Assembly Bill 1440: Discussion with Possible Action. >> Move approval of the resolution. >> Second. >> Any discussion, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All opposed? Motion carries. Item J Public Hearing and Approval of Contract for 2010-2011 Between the Pasadena City College Instructional Support Services Unit, ISSU and the Pasadena Area Community College District: Discussion of Possible Action. Is there anybody in the public who wants to address the Board on this issue? Is there a--or public hearing excuse me, forgive me. We'll open the public hearing anybody wishing to address the Board on this matter? None appearing, the public hearing is closed, what is the pleasure of the Board? >> That was one of the few times you can really use the gavel. >> I know. [ Laughter ] >> I have other uses for the gavel. >> Okay. >> Just don't sit too close. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Thomson do we need to vote then on this? It says discussion with possible action, to approve the contract? >> Oh, I think it--approval of contract, so yes I think we need a motion of approval. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay, any further discussion, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All opposed, motion carries. >> One bit of discussion, congratulations to the administration and to the members of the ISSU to have successfully concluded this contract agreement, this is a great achievement. >> I do also want since Anna Mae is here want to thank Lyle for his role but also thank issue and Anna Mae for her representation and for a good bargaining in good faith that has led to this contract which is good for the college, good for the employees so I thank you very much. >> Terrific. >> And Glena has just walked in. [ Laughter ] >> Item K, Receive and Set Public Hearing Regarding 2010-2011 Initial Bargaining Proposal from the Pasadena Area Community College District to the Pasadena City College Faculty Association: Discussion with Possible Action, Dr. Rocha? >> Yes, President Thompson you'll see on the agenda and the public agenda you'll see the initial issues of the district's proposal. Let me get to it that is your item K, there we go, okay. And this information is the list of potential issues for negotiations between the district and the Faculty Association. >> It is the number of articles that--it is the articles that we would like to discuss with the faculty, it is the beginning and not the end of the collective bargaining process, we have on hand General Counsel, Mary Dow and General Counsel will represent the district with Lyle as lead negotiator in the collective bargaining process with the Faculty Association. We have already received in sunshine the Faculty Association's proposal which by presenting ours is a commitment to come to the table and bargain in good faith. So following your discussion this is submitted for your adoption. >> Motion to approve staff recommendation. >> Is there a second? >> Wait, wait, wait. >> Okay, Ms. Dow? >> I'm sorry to interrupt but there's nothing for the Board to approve tonight. >> But we have to-- [ Simultaneously Talking ] >> You only need to set the hearing. >> We're setting the date-- >> I just wanna be sure it's very clear that all the Board is doing is setting a hearing. >> Okay. >> And not approving. >> No, no, that's what Dr. Fellow meant to say. >> Okay, thank you I'm sorry to interrupt. It just sounded like it was approving the proposal. >> No, no. >> Is there anybody who wishes to address the Board, anybody in the audience wishing to address the Board on this topic? Okay we have a motion. I think we have a second. Did we? >> Yes we do. >> Did we get a second? >> We have a second to receive this and designate the meeting of September 1 as time for receiving public comment regarding initial proposal of the district. >> So moved, I'll second it. >> Okay it's been moved and seconded. Any discussion, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All opposed? Motion carries. Bylaw Review: Discussion with Possible Action, Bylaw 1830, Miscellaneous: Travel Expense, Dr. Mann. >> Yes just a little bit of background to remind the Board that our bylaws are based on the model bylaws provided by the California--the Community College League of California, these have been reviewed by the college's executive committee and they have also been reviewed by the College Coordinating Council and they've also been reviewed by the Board's Subcommittee on Policy and all the Board approves is the policy itself, not the procedures. The first bylaw number 1830 on Miscellaneous: Travel Expenses is just a policy. The only changes there are to clarify personal car mileage reimbursement and also the--when you attend a conference how much your 32 dollars per day actually covers and Mr. Thomson raised the question, "Is 32 dollars a day adequate for food?" And the Board has for a long time gone with the state rate and this is the state rate and that's what we do and it applies to everyone, Board members, administrators, faculty, staff and students, is that correct? >> Yes. >> So if there's not any questions I would move approval of bylaw number 830. >> 1830. >> 1830, right. >> Is there a second to the motion? >> Second. >> I'm sorry second? Okay. Dr. Fellows seconded it. Any discussion, Mr. Martin? >> If our fundamental philosophy is that we're going at the state rate. >> Right. >> I wonder if instead of setting it at 32 dollars we couldn't set the policy to say at the state rate and then as the state rate changes, our policy would automatically be in compliance and then not require a Board action to reset the rate. >> That would be a way of doing it if that's the underlying principle as apparently it is. Ms. Kollross? >> Crystal was working on this. >> I just want to clarify this that the 32 dollars is not the state rate, it's actually 2 dollars less than the state rate because the state rate actually was more specific in how much money could be spent for each meal. So we chose to go with the flat rate and you could spend it any way you want it. >> And I knew that, I'm sorry Crystal I should have--I should have conveyed that. There's your answer. >> So instead of 34 we get to spend 32. >> Right but we--the other says like 7 dollars for lunch and 4 dollars and fifty cents for breakfast and 9 dollars and a quarter for midnight snack, is that not correct Crystal, that's what the state's rate is? >> Okay any further discussion, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All opposed? Motion carries. Okay Dr. Mann Policy Review with Possible Action, Policy Number 5250: Professional Conference Attendance. >> Okay again this is--we are approving the policy and not the procedures although if we have suggestions about the procedures we can give them to the administration and the only change in the policy is just to label it as a policy. So I would move approval of this policy. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay moved and approved--or moved and seconded I should say, Mr. Baum? >> Just a point of clarification, it's my understanding that we actually do not approve the procedures, they're more for information. >> That's what I said we only approve the policy. >> That's what she said. >> But the policy is already--there're no changes to the policy. >> Yes there is--the first sentence, see where it's dark? It says revised, it says this is mistamped it should say revised policy on there. >> And which is this the--which is the text? >> The policy is the one that says policy number 520, page 1, it's that first few paragraphs and only there-- >> Right here I think it's the word-- >> It is the policy-- >> I think the only change is that word right there. >> Oh, it is the policy? >> Yes, even though it's-- >> If I understood her that's what she's saying they changed that word. >> Okay, okay. >> And the policy is on white paper and the procedures are on yellow paper, any other questions? >> Other questions or comments, advisory vote? >> Aye. >> All in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All opposed? The motion carries. Okay we are on to Future Board Meeting Dates. >> I can't believe it. >> Saturday August 28th at 9:30 a.m. at Cal Tech Athenaeum, Summer Board Retreat, Wednesday September 1, 2010 Regular Board meeting, and Wednesday September 15th the Regular Board meeting. Future agenda items-- >> Wait, wait I have a question on the Board meeting dates. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm concerned about when the committee to review the applications for the Boards is going to meet and if we're going to notice those meetings should we settle on that now or how are we going to do that because our time schedule says that we will complete this initial review by September 8 which is only a little over a week away. >> That's a very good point. >> Maybe the committee should stay after and work their calendars and decide that and then announce it. >> Yeah, my thought would be we could announce that at Saturday--or we could say and announce this evening or we could announce it Saturday at the retreat. >> The committee can announce when that meeting is occurring whenever the committee decides to do it, it doesn't have to be at a regular Board meeting you make that announcement. >> But we could announce it there also. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Right so--I think it's preferable to have a public announcement on it but any other questions about Board meeting dates or anything? Future agenda items, Ms. Brown? >> None. >> Dr. Mann? >> Yes, I would like to talk a little bit about the agenda for the Board Retreat I had sent Dr. Rocha an e-mail about this and then I realized that we can--that it's a future meeting, the agenda for the Board Retreat which is going to be on Saturday. I had requested and I would like to have this go on the record that on the agenda which unfortunately I didn't bring with me it says roles and responsibilities of the Board I would like it specifically to say roles and responsibility of the Board Officers in addition to the Board and the college President and also I would like to make sure that the Board's norms and protocols are on the agenda so that they--because there is a topic of something like meetings, agendas and Board processes and the norms and protocols are certain important with Board processes. So that can just be any way to include the Board processes. So if it's not too late and I don't think it is, we have 72 hours before that meeting I would like to suggest those changes of the agenda we received through the mail. >> Yes, first of all to be responsive Trustee Mann, I did take that up and I forwarded the information to Cindra who is the facilitator, it will be taken to the meeting and in--and her view wasn't necessary that those things were subsumed in some of the already public agenda items but those specific items that you called out will be carried to the retreat on Saturday. >> I understand Ms. Smith's view but as a Board member I would like to see those things listed on the agenda particularly the roles and responsibilities of the Board--of the Board officers. >> We can certainly put that on, that won't be a problem. >> Done. >> Okay, anything else with respect to the Board meeting dates? >> Okay our future agenda items Mr. Martin? Mr. Baum? >> Two things, one is just to--as we discussed we may need to close the loop on our self-evaluation process so we might need to agendize that since we started it but I don't think we ever concluded it last spring and then number 2, the Board Room set up I'd like to have an opportunity for the Board members to weigh in now that we have a new dynamic and see--to get some consensus on how we should set up the physical space. >> Okay, Dr. Fellow? >> I just wanted to ask is the student rep invited to the meeting on Saturday or not or--? >> They're not specifically invited, it's a public meeting. So any member of the public can attend. >> I'm trying to recall we've had prior retreats, hasn't the student trustee attended? >> They're able to attend anything but the closed session. >> Right but I think have we not specifically invited the student trustee to attend and participate? >> Well, we should if we haven't-- >> I think we have. >> They might have some good ideas on how we should conduct our meetings. >> They might. [ Laughter ] >> Very good, okay we hope to see you at 9:30 Saturday morning. >> I will be there. >> Good all right. Any other future agenda items, okay? Anything else to bring up this evening? >> I have--I'd like to go back to the retreat agenda again, we usually have on our retreat agenda closed session, whether we have a closed session or not. And we usually have it towards the end of the meeting in case there's something we need to take up we then can do it and then everyone else can go home. So I would like to suggest that we add that just in case something arises that we need to discuss in closed session although I know we're meeting again in a week. >> Okay can we ask perhaps counsel to comment on this? >> Have a detailed-- [ Inaudible Remarks ] >> The problem with trying to have a closed session just in case is that the Brown Act requires that the agenda that is posted reflect the topics the Board will take up in closed session which requires you to know when you post the agenda what will need to be discussed. >> Since we haven't prepared anything that's--I withdraw that suggestion. >> Okay, thank you. >> Anything else to be brought up this evening any--Mr. Pack? >> Since I will be attending the Saturday meeting if I could just get a copy of the agenda 'cause I haven't gotten one yet. >> We can do that. >> Great, thank you. >> We will do that. Anybody over here, Dr. van Pelt? Dr. Jacobs? Dr. Wilcox? Dr. Sugimoto? Mr. Engeldinger? Ms. Chapman. >> No, thank you sir. >> Are you feeling guilty-- >> I think then we are adjourned. >> Leave before 9:30. >> Yeah. [ Inaudible Remark ] [ Silence ]